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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 4:32:33 GMT
Not if it's experienced. How do you know of that which lies foundational to all that comes and goes if it is beyond experiencing? If something is beyond experiencing then it's just an idea isn't it? Realization. Who is realizing?
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Post by Figgles on Dec 9, 2019 4:32:51 GMT
Some have mistaken direct experience of the arising world, absent overt and obvious self-referential thought, for transcendent seeing. I think too there may be a conflation between thoughts about what is happening, about dream content, with self-referential thought. One can think 'about' the shoe on the floor without there being an SVP involved. Indeed, in terms of being consciously aware of what's going on with mind, seeing the important difference between direct experience vs. thoughts about what is being experienced, and thoughts that are in direct reference to a separate person, is important. However, overtly self referential thoughts are but one facet of self-identification. Identification with body/mind is far more nuanced and subtle than just the presence of obvious self referential thinking. It runs much deeper. Is much more viscerally anchored. I'd dare to say that ZD's intense focus and interest upon 'body awareness' is itself indicative of self-identification. Just because one has moved from identification with mind/thoughts to identification with body, feelings, sensations, does not make for 'transcendence' of mind. Body may seem to be 'beyond mind,' but really, the two go hand in hand. The body is an appearance only and thus, all body knowings, senses, are as well. There are some illusion you can see through. For an example, happy defines unhappy and unhappy defines happy. Any movement you step towards to eradicate something from your experience or gain from it is an illusion, for an instance, controlling creates the lose of control and lose of control creates the controlling again. Trying to prove something to yourself project the argument outside. For an example, trying to prove predetermination project the people with opposite idea(God has fallen into the dream). Some other tricky illusion follows after realization, for an example after realizing nothing can be done, one stops taking any action but as a matter of fact this is another new action. Illusion can be seen but the thing is, it's not under our control. I'm having trouble following all that and how it relates to what I said....and you're using the term 'illusion' in an odd way.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 9, 2019 4:36:07 GMT
There is no actual WHO. No WHAT. Those get seen through in realization.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 4:37:22 GMT
There is no actual WHO. No WHAT. Those get seen through in realization. Who sees through it?
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Post by Figgles on Dec 9, 2019 4:42:46 GMT
There is no actual WHO. No WHAT. Those get seen through in realization. Who sees through it? There is no Who. The 'who' is a perceivable, an arising to that which does not appear, but rather, lies abidingly fundamental to all perceivables. A 'who' is experienced, perceived, and in SR, all experiential content, all perceivables get seen through....seen to be appearance only. You, Satchi, are not 'actually' a person!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 4:44:43 GMT
There is no Who. The 'who' is a perceivable, an arising to that which does not appear, but rather, lies abidingly fundamental to all perceivables. A 'who' is experienced, perceived, and in SR, all experiential content, all perceivables get seen through....seen to be appearance only. You, Satchi, are not 'actually' a person! Nonsense. You're just playing with words to fit your conceptual non-duality narrative. 😀
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 4:47:00 GMT
controlling creates the lose of control and lose of control creates the controlling again. No it doesn't. It definitely does! If you don't know, then you still haven't seen through this illusion. Create anything with your intention, then it would define it's opposite. As for as I know, you completely unaware of the way consciousness creates the reality.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 4:48:25 GMT
after realization, for an example after realizing nothing can be done, one stops taking any action but as a matter of fact this is another new action. No it isn't. It is definitely possible. For an example, the bigger example is zendancer, after realizing the truth of 'there is no doer', he is accepting the irritation, anger and everything else comes along his way as All That Is is creating.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 4:48:56 GMT
It definitely does! If you don't know, then you still haven't seen through this illusion. Create anything with your intention, then it would define it's opposite. As for as I know, you completely unaware of the way consciousness creates the reality. You're living in a fantasy world.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 9, 2019 4:50:20 GMT
There is no Who. The 'who' is a perceivable, an arising to that which does not appear, but rather, lies abidingly fundamental to all perceivables. A 'who' is experienced, perceived, and in SR, all experiential content, all perceivables get seen through....seen to be appearance only. You, Satchi, are not 'actually' a person! Nonsense. You're just playing with words to fit your conceptual non-duality narrative. 😀 I'm really not. The SVP gets seen through...gets seen for illusion. Personhood, personality, individuality remains part and parcel of experience, but like ALL experiential content, all perceivables, it's seen to be appearance only. There is a difference between the continued arising of personality, individuality, vs. identification with a who/what/person.
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