Post by Figgles on Jan 23, 2019 18:55:31 GMT
Andrew: way I see it is that because there is no actual separation, the ultimate truth is that the movement of the whole caused the bottle to fall i.e 'oneness' is the cause (which is also the same as saying 'no cause').
However, it's a fact that if I step on your foot, you will respond by pushing me off. There is no 'oneness' to push off, and you also won't try to push someone else off...you will push me off. So our experience is of cause and effect (or unequal forces) and this is unavoidable. In a sense, 'cause and effect' is an illusion, but is an absolutely persistent one. Just as 'individual experience' or 'I' is an illusion, but an absolutely persistent one. So the word 'illusion' here doesn't indicate that it 'goes away' when seen or understood, it is a concept that is used to distinguish between two (arbitrary) levels of truth.
However, it's a fact that if I step on your foot, you will respond by pushing me off. There is no 'oneness' to push off, and you also won't try to push someone else off...you will push me off. So our experience is of cause and effect (or unequal forces) and this is unavoidable. In a sense, 'cause and effect' is an illusion, but is an absolutely persistent one. Just as 'individual experience' or 'I' is an illusion, but an absolutely persistent one. So the word 'illusion' here doesn't indicate that it 'goes away' when seen or understood, it is a concept that is used to distinguish between two (arbitrary) levels of truth.
This here Andrew exemplifies an understanding that is conceptual only...an understanding that has not actually changed anything in terms of 'how' life is experienced.
Actual realization illuminates the totality of experience, (cause/effect included) as Maya, and the distinction left in the wake of that realization, is not 'arbitrary' at all.
Indeed, cause/effect continues to appear within experience, but if one is truly awake, that distinction between 'what appears' and what 'actually is,' does not blur.
Enigma: We can't say oneness or wholeness is the cause as those terms don't define a creative force. The term 'Consciousness' does. As such, it's not the same as saying 'no cause'.
Lolly won't respond if you step on his foot, Consciousness will. Consciousness also caused the foot stepping, so 'respond' isn't really an appropriate term.
Those 'levels of truth' are not arbitrary. The Consciousness level always Donald Trumps the physical level.
Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5264/plans-connect-actions?page=2#ixzz5dSSBOUBR
Lolly won't respond if you step on his foot, Consciousness will. Consciousness also caused the foot stepping, so 'respond' isn't really an appropriate term.
Those 'levels of truth' are not arbitrary. The Consciousness level always Donald Trumps the physical level.
Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5264/plans-connect-actions?page=2#ixzz5dSSBOUBR
Exactly. If/when the distinction becomes arbitrary, it means one has fallen back asleep, back into the dream.....having lost sight of the Truth of Being.
