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Post by someNothing on Dec 11, 2019 1:11:51 GMT
No such answer will satisfy the mind. Any intellectual, logical, hopeful or whatever answer born of the mind and its unconscious fears must deal with the other end of the duality stick (remember E's "no one-ended stick" thingy... I got a kick out of that, hehe). Any progress born of the mind must necessarily/eventually lead to doubt of its truth. Awareness is not an answer; it's a pointer to unboundedness, not entity, purity "from" mind... In our last squirrel satsang, Marie and I were talking about how nothing we can look at is the looker. She said 'but it's just conceptual for me' I said 'How can that be? You saw it a few weeks ago, and I saw you see it. How did it turn from a realization into a concept that you doubt?' She finally noticed that she was resisting the idea that she would never be able to find herself in the world. So she just kicked that realization to the curb. I think with certain glimpses and realizations, it's easy to go through a series of "what ifs" when contemplating their implications, which is natural. I'd assume that the thoughts used necessarily bring to the fore the thoughts/ideas/beliefs that are somewhat affected by and/or are connected to the implications. Likely an activity where mind gets a revisionist toehold and could work behind the scenes to coordinate attention. Amazing stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 2:43:43 GMT
No such answer will satisfy the mind. Any intellectual, logical, hopeful or whatever answer born of the mind and its unconscious fears must deal with the other end of the duality stick (remember E's "no one-ended stick" thingy... I got a kick out of that, hehe). Any progress born of the mind must necessarily/eventually lead to doubt of its truth. Awareness is not an answer; it's a pointer to unboundedness, not entity, purity "from" mind... In our last squirrel satsang, Marie and I were talking about how nothing we can look at is the looker. She said 'but it's just conceptual for me' I said 'How can that be? You saw it a few weeks ago, and I saw you see it. How did it turn from a realization into a concept that you doubt?' She finally noticed that she was resisting the idea that she would never be able to find herself in the world. So she just kicked that realization to the curb. It's the other way around. In the state of ignorance (separation) you think that what you are looking at is separate from one's own Self. Realization is knowing that the looker and what you look at are the same. They are nothing other than Self. This is a common misconception among non-dualist theorists who may appreciate the distinction between unchanging and changing, between the perceiver and what is perceived and then they stop there. They say that the unchanging is real and the changing is unreal or illusion. That ability to discriminate is important and has a truth at that level, but that ability to discriminate is not realization. SR is realizing that there is no difference between emptiness and form and between the Seer and what is seen. It is all Self without separation. There are no illusions for the realized. All that appears or not appears is the Self, one without a second. The realized don't care whether the Self appears as manifest or unmanifest with or without form, personal, impersonal, it's all the same! There is a big difference between saying that the world is just an appearance as something separate from oneself as the unchanging reality and realizing that the appearance is nothing other than the Self appearing as form to itself as itself as the reality.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 4:50:56 GMT
In our last squirrel satsang, Marie and I were talking about how nothing we can look at is the looker. She said 'but it's just conceptual for me' I said 'How can that be? You saw it a few weeks ago, and I saw you see it. How did it turn from a realization into a concept that you doubt?' She finally noticed that she was resisting the idea that she would never be able to find herself in the world. So she just kicked that realization to the curb. It's the other way around. In the state of ignorance (separation) you think that what you are looking at is separate from one's own Self. Realization is knowing that the looker and what you look at are the same. They are nothing other than Self. This is a common misconception among non-dualist theorists who may appreciate the distinction between unchanging and changing, between the perceiver and what is perceived and then they stop there. They say that the unchanging is real and the changing is unreal or illusion. That ability to discriminate is important and has a truth at that level, but that ability to discriminate is not realization. SR is realizing that there is no difference between emptiness and form and between the Seer and what is seen. It is all Self without separation. There are no illusions for the realized. All that appears or not appears is the Self, one without a second. The realized don't care whether the Self appears as manifest or unmanifest with or without form, personal, impersonal, it's all the same! There is a big difference between saying that the world is just an appearance as something separate from oneself as the unchanging reality and realizing that the appearance is nothing other than the Self appearing as form to itself as itself as the reality. If you have realized that, then why are you pretending to be talking to a separate person, when you know there is just your Self here?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 5:40:34 GMT
It's the other way around. In the state of ignorance (separation) you think that what you are looking at is separate from one's own Self. Realization is knowing that the looker and what you look at are the same. They are nothing other than Self. This is a common misconception among non-dualist theorists who may appreciate the distinction between unchanging and changing, between the perceiver and what is perceived and then they stop there. They say that the unchanging is real and the changing is unreal or illusion. That ability to discriminate is important and has a truth at that level, but that ability to discriminate is not realization. SR is realizing that there is no difference between emptiness and form and between the Seer and what is seen. It is all Self without separation. There are no illusions for the realized. All that appears or not appears is the Self, one without a second. The realized don't care whether the Self appears as manifest or unmanifest with or without form, personal, impersonal, it's all the same! There is a big difference between saying that the world is just an appearance as something separate from oneself as the unchanging reality and realizing that the appearance is nothing other than the Self appearing as form to itself as itself as the reality. If you have realized that, then why are you pretending to be talking to a separate person, when you know there is just your Self here? Are you talking to me? 😀
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 10:05:52 GMT
If you have realized that, then why are you pretending to be talking to a separate person, when you know there is just your Self here? Are you talking to me? 😀 Oh Look!!! The tapatalk twins!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 16:33:59 GMT
If you have realized that, then why are you pretending to be talking to a separate person, when you know there is just your Self here? Are you talking to me? 😀 What would be talking to you if there is only Self here?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 17:05:04 GMT
Are you talking to me? 😀 What would be talking to you if there is only Self here? You are my Self and I am yours, but there is only one.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 11, 2019 20:21:17 GMT
It's the other way around. In the state of ignorance (separation) you think that what you are looking at is separate from one's own Self. Realization is knowing that the looker and what you look at are the same. They are nothing other than Self. This is a common misconception among non-dualist theorists who may appreciate the distinction between unchanging and changing, between the perceiver and what is perceived and then they stop there. They say that the unchanging is real and the changing is unreal or illusion. That ability to discriminate is important and has a truth at that level, but that ability to discriminate is not realization. SR is realizing that there is no difference between emptiness and form and between the Seer and what is seen. It is all Self without separation. There are no illusions for the realized. All that appears or not appears is the Self, one without a second. The realized don't care whether the Self appears as manifest or unmanifest with or without form, personal, impersonal, it's all the same! There is a big difference between saying that the world is just an appearance as something separate from oneself as the unchanging reality and realizing that the appearance is nothing other than the Self appearing as form to itself as itself as the reality. If you have realized that, then why are you pretending to be talking to a separate person, when you know there is just your Self here? Good Lord have mercy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 16:13:26 GMT
If you have realized that, then why are you pretending to be talking to a separate person, when you know there is just your Self here? Good Lord have mercy. What if you were God? Who would you be asking for mercy from and for who?
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Dec 12, 2019 17:34:09 GMT
Good Lord have mercy. What if you were God? Who would you be asking for mercy from and for who? Since Figs is now at the mercy point, I'll try to fill in for her. This is what we like to call a DUFUS argument, just so's you know. Not the first time God has brought this to our attention. Regardless of how clear one is about one's true identity, one still engages the world of apparent separation, just as you are doing now. It would be absurd to act like Mr Awareness and ignore everybody.
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